I have experience in the AG church (sounds like he was an AG pastor) and have some responses re: theology, presentation and culture but I need to be at my computer to write well. Expect a very late night edit to this comment. Ok here's the edit. I'm working on 4 hrs of sleep so I hope it's ok. Also it's a comment, not an essay, so I'm probably not going to fully flush out my ideas.
While your deep dive is helpful, your analysis misses the mark a few times. So, let's clear that up. The Assemblies of God is a charasmatic church, extremely concerned with the experience of spiritual gifts - so much so that a requirement for ordination is that you have either spoken in tougues or believe you will speak in tongues (praying in other languages supernaturally) Much of their preaching is concerned with the experience of the the Holy Spirit rather than the moral quandries of the US, and I think that's why he's preaching like he did. But don't be mistaken, they still belive in the the platonic ideal of man of head of the household with a pretty and docile wife and obedient children, preferably white, and they still have all of the moral hangups more outspoken Christians have. I can hear it in the quote about abortion - but he didn't preach against it because he was preaching to the choir. There was no need to dedicate an entire sermon to abortion because he knew that everyone in the room agreed with him about it. I think your focus on what he said in his sermons is a bit a red herring, because it's not matter of theology, it's a matter of culture. He was taught (like many other denominations) that if he got his life right with God, he would be successful - having adoring fans as a pastor, making converts, not being poor, etc. And he expected it because, well, white man.
And that's the most insidious thing about American Christianity here. It's not the hellfire and brimstone everyone goes on and on about. It's that if you just believe hard enough, or do the right things, God will grant you your magical wishes. Basically, it's another form of entitlement. (You do actually touch on this, which I'm glad about. ) In reality, I think this guy believed a hateful political rhetoric and his entitlement/self-righteousness was empowered by the culture of the church. Not the other way around - that the church has violent rhetoric and the prescence of MAGA empowered him to do what he did. (although that line is still a little blurry.)
I kind of hate to see so much attention being given to yet another man with a gun and a grievance, but this is amazing work. The thread I see in this guy’s life is that he was always looking for his 15 minutes of fame. It was never actually about faith, it was always about him. And when he couldn’t figure out any other way to get attention, he shot some people.
When he said when he got to heaven he wanted his own stories to tell, not just sit around and listen to others stories…. That was telling, that’s part of the phony Gospel of Prosperity in that, if you are truly one of the perfect Christians, you will prosper here and now. Then, you will have your own stories to tell in heaven…
No. I assure you. I'm not a religious sheeple, and I found the work of the United Church of Christ to be compelling and good, as much as religion can be good, anyway.
Such a deep dive and yet no easy answers. I honestly wanted him to be an undeniably nutty evangelical, but after all that you’ve assembled here, his story is just many additional layers of sad on top of the devastation he created.
It looks to me like Vance Boelter wanted MAGA-Christianity to be the only Christian denomination in America. It’s his talk about ‘one church’, and how he thinks some churches have it wrong- presumably, if they honor a pregnant person’s right to choose abortion, or support LGBTQ+ people and issues, or some other personal criteria. I think he kept his most extreme opinions and his violent plans concerning those opinions a secret to himself.
I’m curious about whether Vance Boelter will be charged with terrorism in addition to murder, stalking, etc. because in my opinion, charging Luigi Mangioni with terrorism in addition to the other, more typical charges for shooting Brian Thompson was uncalled for. That was purely to send a message of extreme consequences to prevent copycats, because a small coterie of corporate billionaires (who are used to being more insulated from dangers we deal with all the time) freaked the fuck out.
But if Mangione was charged with terrorism, and not Vance Boelter, who had lots of weapons, posed as police, and had a long list of Democrat targets and included their family members…wtf? I’m not wanting to throw terrorism charges around like confetti, just pointing out a possible tacit permission structure that’s lurking.
Thanks, Dennis! I fear it might prove too early, so I was reluctant to draw hard conclusions. But the analysis space was filling up with, well, other stuff!
I would be shocked if anyone found it appealing, for sure. But I do think there's more danger in waiting to put these ideas forward, and letting pre-existing caricatures cement themselves. Thanks for sharing your feedback, Rose, I'm sure I could've done better to make it meet the moment, but all I can do is try!
Christians have the connection between evil Trump and the Old Testament King Cyrus of Persia, who was supposedly used by God to unwittingly do great things for the Hebrews.
Trump is supposed to be a worldly sinner who is God's tool.
It's amazing what hubris, pride, and credulity can get one to believe.
I think your analysis that his preaching about abortion in the context of church divisions is right. But the divisions he’s referring to, IMO, are the “liberal churches” versus the evangelical right. He’s definitely in the super conservative evangelical camp. I can tell just from the excerpts you posted of his sermons. I hear echoes of my own church in those bits. His idea of unity is for all Christian churches to fight the culture wars, like good Christian soldiers should. None of this explains why he decided to shoot Democrats in the middle of the night. I think we’re gonna need to hear from him on that.
I suspect you're right, but his example about Ron suggests it's not just politics, it's also denominationalism. I think culturally we have VASTLY under-grappled with the implications of the move away from denominations into a sort of self-justifying, unquestionable religious faith in...whatever I want to do. Your last point, of course, trumps everything I've said and is spot on. Thanks and sorry for verbing the president.
Ok, so I guess there is an order, in which we must respect, to dive deep enough and read unpleasant things, SO IT PERHAPS DOESN’T HAVE A PARTY GREATER THAN ONE.
If you’ve come this far, because you’re an investigative journalist, fast gets answers factually, not emotionally.
The shield, or stone alter of sacrifice, is egocentric and driven.
Red Lion has a CEO. There’s a bro of a sis secretary from 1.0, who seems to pop up all over, and copper and cobalt to protect. I just can’t figure out the connection to the assassin.
As you read further themes emerge but ambiguously tied to a much bigger story.
Sunday school never taught me anything about “hey, kid, someday you’ll figure out that if you can convince people of absurdities (this guy holds back until he didn’t) they’ll commit atrocities. So, the less you know may be easier, but the more you know, is power over the atrocities being committed to stop them, slow them, understand them to help thy neighbor quicker.”
I like concrete connections.
Psychologically you’ve exposed the evolution that turned inward then outward but slowly.
The locations beg for clarification.
The abrupt start/stop of international commerce/government interaction/church relationships.
Nefarious.
Personal justification.
The high from using his “beliefs”, “created narratives” to gain attention or adulation.
What I don’t trust is our current unintelligence agencies for answers.
I guess I understand why we might want to know about his deep crazy-Christian affiliations given our current political environment and how he embedded himself so deeply into the missionary (for lack of a better word) lifestyle, but he just comes across as another nut to me.
His most recent photographs also suggest someone who had abandoned self care. There are many avenues for the mentally unwell mind to follow. If he hadn't chosen fundamentalist Christianity, he would have just found some other obsession, and he probably would have killed someone else.
Did beliefs break him? Was he a huckster that didn't make a dent? Is that why he was living part-time with his roommates? Something broke Mike Lindell's mind. Is this the same thing?
Thanks to Separation of Church and State, religion in the US is essentially unregulated. Anybody can style themselves a "pastor" and found a "church." In the last 50 years this has resulted in the accelerating displacement of organized denominations (with educated professional clergy, who are credentialed, supervised, and held accountable by overseers who are themselves accountable to the denominational body as a whole) by a chaotic free market of entrepreneurial self-styled "pastors" who compete for congregants, media followers, and income from sales of media and merch.
Some of them become megachurch leaders or celebrity televangelists; others become YouTube influencers or go on the talk circuit. Many of them faithfully run small storefront churches with little or no pay and are sincere spiritual leaders to an actual worshiping community; others use the tax-exempt status of religion to operate scams. None of them are required by law to justify their designation as "pastor" by proving mastery of scripture, Christian doctrine or ethics, comparative religion, or counseling. All of them are essentially entrepreneurs, free to organize their personal business model any way they see fit.
Boelter could be disciplined for impersonating a cop: nobody gets to call themself a cop unless some actual police force has vetted them and given them a badge and title. He could be disciplined if he pretended to be a doctor: doctors are licensed and regulated. He could probably get in trouble for operating a "security" business if it turned out to be nothing but a front of some kind. But calling himself a pastor? Unless he falsely claimed to belong to the clergy of some specific denomination that had not actually credentialed him, he can claim anything he damn well pleases.
Religion in America is wide open to scammers and grifters. That's the flip side of religious freedom.
Onward Christian soldiers* marching as to war and love thy neighbor as thyself are incongruent unless neighbor means Christian. Otherwise, the roads lead in different directions. A human mind trying to hold those two things as one truth has to go off the rails sometime.
* proselytizing is a given understanding of duty to spread church tenets
OK - I haven’t read through this post, but I read the post this morning. I listened to MSNBC for HOURS tonight, and nobody is bringing up the fact that this guy is a pastor. There has to be some political reason for that. What the fuck is it???
I don't believe he was a pastor. There doesn't seem to be any reference to him starting or preaching at a church in US. Only his missionary trips to DRC. Perhaps all it takes is 1x preaching to become a pastor but it wasn't his full time profession at any point in his life so I don't think it's a gigantic cover up or anything like that
I have experience in the AG church (sounds like he was an AG pastor) and have some responses re: theology, presentation and culture but I need to be at my computer to write well. Expect a very late night edit to this comment. Ok here's the edit. I'm working on 4 hrs of sleep so I hope it's ok. Also it's a comment, not an essay, so I'm probably not going to fully flush out my ideas.
While your deep dive is helpful, your analysis misses the mark a few times. So, let's clear that up. The Assemblies of God is a charasmatic church, extremely concerned with the experience of spiritual gifts - so much so that a requirement for ordination is that you have either spoken in tougues or believe you will speak in tongues (praying in other languages supernaturally) Much of their preaching is concerned with the experience of the the Holy Spirit rather than the moral quandries of the US, and I think that's why he's preaching like he did. But don't be mistaken, they still belive in the the platonic ideal of man of head of the household with a pretty and docile wife and obedient children, preferably white, and they still have all of the moral hangups more outspoken Christians have. I can hear it in the quote about abortion - but he didn't preach against it because he was preaching to the choir. There was no need to dedicate an entire sermon to abortion because he knew that everyone in the room agreed with him about it. I think your focus on what he said in his sermons is a bit a red herring, because it's not matter of theology, it's a matter of culture. He was taught (like many other denominations) that if he got his life right with God, he would be successful - having adoring fans as a pastor, making converts, not being poor, etc. And he expected it because, well, white man.
And that's the most insidious thing about American Christianity here. It's not the hellfire and brimstone everyone goes on and on about. It's that if you just believe hard enough, or do the right things, God will grant you your magical wishes. Basically, it's another form of entitlement. (You do actually touch on this, which I'm glad about. ) In reality, I think this guy believed a hateful political rhetoric and his entitlement/self-righteousness was empowered by the culture of the church. Not the other way around - that the church has violent rhetoric and the prescence of MAGA empowered him to do what he did. (although that line is still a little blurry.)
I kind of hate to see so much attention being given to yet another man with a gun and a grievance, but this is amazing work. The thread I see in this guy’s life is that he was always looking for his 15 minutes of fame. It was never actually about faith, it was always about him. And when he couldn’t figure out any other way to get attention, he shot some people.
Shit, Kelly, where were you when I needed someone to edit this down! Thank you for the kind words, of course!
When he said when he got to heaven he wanted his own stories to tell, not just sit around and listen to others stories…. That was telling, that’s part of the phony Gospel of Prosperity in that, if you are truly one of the perfect Christians, you will prosper here and now. Then, you will have your own stories to tell in heaven…
No. I assure you. I'm not a religious sheeple, and I found the work of the United Church of Christ to be compelling and good, as much as religion can be good, anyway.
Such a deep dive and yet no easy answers. I honestly wanted him to be an undeniably nutty evangelical, but after all that you’ve assembled here, his story is just many additional layers of sad on top of the devastation he created.
It looks to me like Vance Boelter wanted MAGA-Christianity to be the only Christian denomination in America. It’s his talk about ‘one church’, and how he thinks some churches have it wrong- presumably, if they honor a pregnant person’s right to choose abortion, or support LGBTQ+ people and issues, or some other personal criteria. I think he kept his most extreme opinions and his violent plans concerning those opinions a secret to himself.
I’m curious about whether Vance Boelter will be charged with terrorism in addition to murder, stalking, etc. because in my opinion, charging Luigi Mangioni with terrorism in addition to the other, more typical charges for shooting Brian Thompson was uncalled for. That was purely to send a message of extreme consequences to prevent copycats, because a small coterie of corporate billionaires (who are used to being more insulated from dangers we deal with all the time) freaked the fuck out.
But if Mangione was charged with terrorism, and not Vance Boelter, who had lots of weapons, posed as police, and had a long list of Democrat targets and included their family members…wtf? I’m not wanting to throw terrorism charges around like confetti, just pointing out a possible tacit permission structure that’s lurking.
This might be the best early analysis I’ve read so far.
Thanks, Dennis! I fear it might prove too early, so I was reluctant to draw hard conclusions. But the analysis space was filling up with, well, other stuff!
I think this is too much too soon. We are still wrapping our heads around this tragedy. This deep dive is good just not an appealing read right now.
I would be shocked if anyone found it appealing, for sure. But I do think there's more danger in waiting to put these ideas forward, and letting pre-existing caricatures cement themselves. Thanks for sharing your feedback, Rose, I'm sure I could've done better to make it meet the moment, but all I can do is try!
In awful stories, the truth is often awful.
Everything following a shooting is somehow too soon.
Jonathan has fucking nailed this preacher of the Failure Gospel.
Christians have the connection between evil Trump and the Old Testament King Cyrus of Persia, who was supposedly used by God to unwittingly do great things for the Hebrews.
Trump is supposed to be a worldly sinner who is God's tool.
It's amazing what hubris, pride, and credulity can get one to believe.
Wow. This is a great outline of what we know and how some of the pieces fit together. I am interested in how the story unfolds
I think your analysis that his preaching about abortion in the context of church divisions is right. But the divisions he’s referring to, IMO, are the “liberal churches” versus the evangelical right. He’s definitely in the super conservative evangelical camp. I can tell just from the excerpts you posted of his sermons. I hear echoes of my own church in those bits. His idea of unity is for all Christian churches to fight the culture wars, like good Christian soldiers should. None of this explains why he decided to shoot Democrats in the middle of the night. I think we’re gonna need to hear from him on that.
I suspect you're right, but his example about Ron suggests it's not just politics, it's also denominationalism. I think culturally we have VASTLY under-grappled with the implications of the move away from denominations into a sort of self-justifying, unquestionable religious faith in...whatever I want to do. Your last point, of course, trumps everything I've said and is spot on. Thanks and sorry for verbing the president.
Ok, so I guess there is an order, in which we must respect, to dive deep enough and read unpleasant things, SO IT PERHAPS DOESN’T HAVE A PARTY GREATER THAN ONE.
If you’ve come this far, because you’re an investigative journalist, fast gets answers factually, not emotionally.
The shield, or stone alter of sacrifice, is egocentric and driven.
Red Lion has a CEO. There’s a bro of a sis secretary from 1.0, who seems to pop up all over, and copper and cobalt to protect. I just can’t figure out the connection to the assassin.
As you read further themes emerge but ambiguously tied to a much bigger story.
Sunday school never taught me anything about “hey, kid, someday you’ll figure out that if you can convince people of absurdities (this guy holds back until he didn’t) they’ll commit atrocities. So, the less you know may be easier, but the more you know, is power over the atrocities being committed to stop them, slow them, understand them to help thy neighbor quicker.”
I like concrete connections.
Psychologically you’ve exposed the evolution that turned inward then outward but slowly.
The locations beg for clarification.
The abrupt start/stop of international commerce/government interaction/church relationships.
Nefarious.
Personal justification.
The high from using his “beliefs”, “created narratives” to gain attention or adulation.
What I don’t trust is our current unintelligence agencies for answers.
That’s why I’m here and will stay tuned!
Thank you!!!
I guess I understand why we might want to know about his deep crazy-Christian affiliations given our current political environment and how he embedded himself so deeply into the missionary (for lack of a better word) lifestyle, but he just comes across as another nut to me.
His most recent photographs also suggest someone who had abandoned self care. There are many avenues for the mentally unwell mind to follow. If he hadn't chosen fundamentalist Christianity, he would have just found some other obsession, and he probably would have killed someone else.
Did beliefs break him? Was he a huckster that didn't make a dent? Is that why he was living part-time with his roommates? Something broke Mike Lindell's mind. Is this the same thing?
https://www.salon.com/2021/09/03/how-mypillow-guy-mike-lindell-came-to-jesus--and-to-donald-trump_partner/
Thanks to Separation of Church and State, religion in the US is essentially unregulated. Anybody can style themselves a "pastor" and found a "church." In the last 50 years this has resulted in the accelerating displacement of organized denominations (with educated professional clergy, who are credentialed, supervised, and held accountable by overseers who are themselves accountable to the denominational body as a whole) by a chaotic free market of entrepreneurial self-styled "pastors" who compete for congregants, media followers, and income from sales of media and merch.
Some of them become megachurch leaders or celebrity televangelists; others become YouTube influencers or go on the talk circuit. Many of them faithfully run small storefront churches with little or no pay and are sincere spiritual leaders to an actual worshiping community; others use the tax-exempt status of religion to operate scams. None of them are required by law to justify their designation as "pastor" by proving mastery of scripture, Christian doctrine or ethics, comparative religion, or counseling. All of them are essentially entrepreneurs, free to organize their personal business model any way they see fit.
Boelter could be disciplined for impersonating a cop: nobody gets to call themself a cop unless some actual police force has vetted them and given them a badge and title. He could be disciplined if he pretended to be a doctor: doctors are licensed and regulated. He could probably get in trouble for operating a "security" business if it turned out to be nothing but a front of some kind. But calling himself a pastor? Unless he falsely claimed to belong to the clergy of some specific denomination that had not actually credentialed him, he can claim anything he damn well pleases.
Religion in America is wide open to scammers and grifters. That's the flip side of religious freedom.
Onward Christian soldiers* marching as to war and love thy neighbor as thyself are incongruent unless neighbor means Christian. Otherwise, the roads lead in different directions. A human mind trying to hold those two things as one truth has to go off the rails sometime.
* proselytizing is a given understanding of duty to spread church tenets
Nicely done.
OK - I haven’t read through this post, but I read the post this morning. I listened to MSNBC for HOURS tonight, and nobody is bringing up the fact that this guy is a pastor. There has to be some political reason for that. What the fuck is it???
I don't believe he was a pastor. There doesn't seem to be any reference to him starting or preaching at a church in US. Only his missionary trips to DRC. Perhaps all it takes is 1x preaching to become a pastor but it wasn't his full time profession at any point in his life so I don't think it's a gigantic cover up or anything like that
He is an ordained missionary, and most churches would consider that a pastor.
***"it definitely falls into the school of “Hate the sin, love the sinner,”***
Bullets kill the sinner. Sin continues, unabated, and Christians praise King Cyrus.
Something is wrong here.
I'm not following the scriptural reference, but I think I can safely agree something is wrong here.